Claire S. - Underlining's Done

The underlining of my coat is done...doing a bit here and there, it took all week. I just finished. These are all the pieces, each showing the underlining side and the wool.

On to the interfacing................

Claire S. - Moving along

I haven't posted in awhile but I AM finally making some progress. Bits & pieces of progress were posted on my blog.

I've cut out all my wool, and flannel underlining and have started basting the pieces together - I was hoping to have them all done by the beginning of the weekend but it didn't happen, so maybe by the END of the weekend ?

Q&A October

Hi all,
I'm deep into wedding sewing at the moment, so am not quite keeping up with the construction and question notes here. Pls have patience.
Claire and Susan, I appreciate that you've been finding some of your answers by just reading past posts and making use of the internet tutorials out there. Several members here have written excellent tutorials while constructing jackets and coats too - be sure to look at their blogs and use the search function on their blogs.

I can think of several relevant tutorials on the blogs of (in alpha order):

Ann and Els (The Sewing Divas)
Kathleen (Fashion Incubator)
Summerset
Tany


From Claire- Lapels - this pattern has separate lapels (instructions say to cut 4, interface 2 and stitch 1 interfaced piece with 1 un-interfaced piece then turn right side out) - All the example pictures shown so far have a front piece that includes a lapel all in one piece, so to follow the sewalong techniques, What on earth do I actually do with my pieces ?

If your lapels are separate, but together with the coat front piece they look like a coat front that is all cut together, it's perhaps a design issue, but also possibly just a fabric use issue. If the coat front is large (double breasted comes to mind) and the collar is oversize, it's entirely possible the seam is there just to make the cutting layout and the fabric usage reasonable.

In the case of the jacket I'm working on, the collar had a "collar stand" piece - surely a design issue. Anyway, I just interfaced both the collar stand and the collar and seamed them together, then proceeded to pad stitch the roll lines. I would suggest that you think it through and make the decision on how to interface based on what the pieces look like. Where is your roll line? Is it on the seam line? on the lapel side of the seam line? on the jacket side of the seam line?

You can interface separately, stitch the pieces together and then pretend the seam doesn't exist and proceed with your shaping padstitching per Paco's tutorial (which is probably what I'd do, but it's dicey saying that without seeing your pieces).

From Lisette:
I was going to interline my cashmere/wool blend fabric with cotton flannel but the added bulk in the lapel (notched collar) worries me plus I have a welt pocket that extends along the side front and the front and according to Marji I should interface instead of underline. What do you recommend? I'm leaning to just interface with the fusi-knit and forget about the flannel...Can I still padstitch with this method? Any help would be greatly appreciated, I need a push to move forward!!

Going back to the information on cutting, and interfacing/underlining etc -
I'd recommend underlining the side fronts, side backs, back, sleeves. The front gets fully interfaced - so it's supported and doesn't need the added underlining. It's also, to a point with most coats, overlapping at the CF along the buttons, so underlining there for warmth is not necessary.

You're right, you don't want flannel underlining in your collar and lapels. Around the welt pocket, I'd stitch the princess seam, mark the welt pocket, cut the flannel out of the side front (your fronts are not interfaced yet) and fuse an interfacing where the welt pocket goes, make the welt pocket, then catch stitch the flannel interlining back to the edges of the pocket seam allowances. Then I'd apply the hair canvas to the front and proceed. There is a good argument for simply cutting a box out of your hair canvas too around the pocket and catch stitching the edges, although if it's not too much, I'd be tempted to just let the interfacing sit on top of the pocket, between the pocket and the lining.

Lindsay T asked about interfacing the front of a collarless jacket.
Louise Cutting dissected an Armani jacket some years ago and wrote an excellent article in Threads on the front shoulder stay he used (it's not the on-line article about an Armani jacket that Marci Tilton wrote). If you have that issue, please speak up. I have it, but it's buried right now and, with the wedding sewing, haven't been able to find it.

Anyway, the gist is, cut a shoulder stay pattern from your front and side front just as we did with the lapel jackets - EXCEPT - the CF line, which would normally be on straight of grain, is placed on true bias. As Louise explained, this puts the neck edge, that you want to stabilize and keep from stretching, on the straight, which then acts as a stay, and puts the area across the front on the bias, which allows for more comfortable movement. Quoting Louise (from a conversation, not necessarily the article) "ingenious."

For your coat LindsayT, you definitely want a shoulder area stay across the front and back. And you want the interfacing to extend into the sleeve seam allowance.

Guide: Underlining and Interlining

For the purposes of clarity I've isolated this part of the post from the post of July 30 on layout, since the information appears to have been buried too deep in the post. --Marji

For those using a sewn-in underlining for structural support:
Your next step is to cut out and mark your underlining using all the body pieces that will be underlined and not interfaced. This is typically:

1. side back
2. back
3. upper sleeve
4. under sleeve
5. side front (unless you have a welt pocket extending into the side front, in which case you'll be interfacing and not underlining your side front.

I don't cut an underlining for the front, since the whole piece is being interfaced, and the support of underlining and interfacing would be a bit of overkill.

Ann wrote a nice tutorial about a month ago on underlining. I'd like to excerpt her instructions here regarding mounting the underlining to the face fabric.

From Ann:
Attaching the underlining
First - pretreat your underlining. Shrink it before you cut into it, so you don't have a disaster later. Also make sure you cut your underlining on the same grain as the fabric. For precision, use a single layer cutting layout for your underlining. After all, if you're taking the time to do an underlining, you might as well take the few extra minutes to get it perfect, right?

Once it's cut, I attach the underlining to the fabric by hand basting it to the body of the fabric. My basting stitches run parallel to the grain of the fabric. They are 1 to 1 1/2 inches long, and I catch just a thread or two of my shell fabric at each stitch, as you can see here:

This takes time, but it's far superior to basting only at the seamlines, because it structurally reinforces the shell fabric. This is critical for areas that will receive a lot of stress from being bent and sat on, like elbows and rumps. It helps your fabric retain its shape. It's really, really important if you're using a cashmere or fur fabric, which has a tendency to bag out.

Thank you Ann!

Along with her mounting method, I like to stitch along the stitching lines too--which acts as thread tracing as well as holding the two layers together along the stitching lines.

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For those using interlining to add warmth, not structural support:
You may attach your interlining, depending on what it is and how bulky it is, in one of several different methods. If you're just using a layer of cotton flannel I'd be tempted to treat it the same as underlining and use the method outlined above. If you're using Thinsulate or a fleece or lambswool as a layer for warmth, that layer is likely to be bulkier than you'll want in your seam allowances.

Below is a picture of how you may want to insert the interlining to keep it out of the seam allowances. The picture on the far left (in red) is an inside-out illustration of the coat with interlining, sans seam allowances, catch-stitched to the constructed body of the coat. I'd recommend waiting to cut the interlining until after the first garment fitting.

The Complete Book of Sewing

By Constance Talbot

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If you're looking at Paco's tutorial, he's basted the interfacing on using a stitch that holds the interfacing in place securely, and will come out after the garment is stitched together.
If you're looking at Ann's tutorial above, those long stitches only go through the first thread or so, not all the way through, so they don't show on the outside, and those stitches are meant to stay in.

There are more ways than one to do any of these steps. Ann wrote the instructions to mount the underlining using an allover basting stitch that stays in. This is especially relevant in making a coat where there are larger expanses of fabric between seams, or, as Ann noted, when using more fragile fabrics that are more susceptible to deforming. Paco illustrated his jacket using perimeter basting stitches that come out. Both are correct.

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Conclusion:

At this point, you now have all your fashion fabric (coating) fabric cut out and your seamlines marked. Make certain that you also mark your match points, notches, etc., too. I use tailor tacks, or on a cotton underlining a wash-away marking pen for those types of markings. Chalk has limited shelf life for marks, so if you're going to reference the marks in fairly short order, chalk is good too. If your coat pattern included lining pieces, you should have transferred all of your alterations to your lining pieces also.

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As promised - Here is the link to the Flickr set containing all the pictures from today's post. If you're interested in seeing any picture in full size, click on the "all sizes" icon just above any pic, and it'll take you to a larger photo.

I'm out of town now, writing on my laptop in the hotel breakfast room. When I get home I'll take some photos showing how to hold your lapel while padstitching. I'll also get some photos of my underlining mounted to my jacket.

Liana: Cashmere Questions

I wasn't sure if I should start a new post on this but I have several questions about what I should do with my fabric. As you know, it's 100% cashmere. I've read all the pertinent info you have posted on fabric, luxury fabrics, underlining, fabric prep, etc., and I still have questions.

1. I was planning to have it pre-shrunk at the cleaner's. I was thinking of just having them steam press it rather than clean it, although they are a CO2 cleaner which might be gentler anyway. But, all the texts mention rather strongly that steam can damage cashmere. What do you suggest? I'm not one who routinely sends clothing to the dry cleaners. I brush, air and shake them, and only if there's actual dirt would I send this to the cleaners. So I'm a little worried about taking my gorgeous fabric to them now to see if it will come back unharmed. Am I worried about nothing here?

2. It's extremely soft and drapey, and definitely needs underlining. I have tried lots of fabrics with it using your over-the-arm test and also holding both fabrics together and holding them up to myself in front of a mirror, and silk broadcloth and silk organza (which I happened to have on hand) seem to be way too lightweight. The cashmere is soft enough that if I drape it over my hand, I can see my knuckles, etc. right through it. This continues to be the case with organza and broadcloth, although 2 layers of broadcloth will soften the knuckle-effect a bit. I don't have enough silk broadcloth to do a double layer, and I think a double layer of anything is just asking for trouble anyway. I tried Pam's non-fusible interfacing under it, and I think that's what I am leaning toward. It gives it a tiny bit of body, yet it still falls in beautiful folds. Do you think I will be okay with this plan, or do you have any other ideas? This fabric is so soft by itself and I don't want this coat to look like a limp rag, or to show outlines of the shoulderpads, etc. I don't think I want flannel, as I don't believe I need the extra warmth. I'm planning on lining with silk charmeuse.

Ann Steeves: Underlining Coating Fabrics

Hi folks! It is so inspiring to see what people are doing. I've been AWOL on this list because it's so busy right now, but I think I'm going to join in and sew myself a coat.

Marji asked me to talk a bit about underlining coatings. Forgive me if you know this already.

What is underlining?
Underlining is a layer of fabric that is attached to your coating shell fabric. It's cut from the same pattern piece and attached to the wrong side of your fabric. Those two pieces of fabric are then treated as one. Underlining provides support to your coating fabric, eliminating stretching, bagging and pulling. It also adds a layer of warmth. And if you have a loosely woven fabric like a bouclé, it reinforces that fabric at stress points. It also acts to conceal seam allowance show-through in certain fabrics.

Fabrics used for underlining
You can use lots and lots of different fabrics for underlining, depending on your desired result. The underlining can either match the hand and drape of your fabric, or you can choose an underlining that will alter the characteristics of your fabric. In the majority of cases, I recommend matching your underlining to the drape, weight and hand of your shell fabric.

I've used many different underlining fabrics in coats. One of my favorite underlining choices is a plain, firmly woven cotton batiste. I've found that it supports your garment without adding any weight. It doesn't change the hand of your fabric, and it doesn't grab your shell fabric. Another great choice for underlining is silk organza. Unlike batiste, it can change the hand of certain fabrics, though with coating it is not as much of an issue. I have had problems with organza and certain types of wools. Organza and crepey and "hairy" wools and fur fabrics tend to grab at eachother's fibers and cause some weird pulling. But it's a great underlining for many bouclés, silks and blends.

I live in Boston, which can get mighty cold and raw in the winter. I made a bouclé coat several years ago. You can see a review of it Here. This fabric, while luxurious and beautiful, does a bad job of cutting the Northeast winds that whip in off the ocean here. To shore it up, both structurally and from an insulating standpoint, I underlined it with a cotton flannel. The flannel makes the coat toasty warm, but not bulky.

Attaching the underlining
First - pretreat your underlining. Shrink it before you cut into it, so you don't have a disaster later. Also make sure you cut your underlining on the same grain as the fabric. For precision, use a single layer cutting layout for your underlining. After all, if you're taking the time to do an underlining, you might as well take the few extra minutes to get it perfect, right?

Once it's cut, I attach the underlining to the fabric by hand basting it to the body of the fabric. My basting stitches run parallel to the grain of the fabric. They are 1 to 1 1/2 inches long, and I catch just a thread or two of my shell fabric at each stitch, as you can see here:


This takes time, but it's far superior to basting only at the seamlines, because it structurally reinforces the shell fabric. This is critical for areas that will receive a lot of stress from being bent and sat on, like elbows and rumps. It helps your fabric retain its shape. It's really, really important if you're using a cashmere or fur fabric, which has a tendency to bag out.

Do I always have to underline?
Like I said above, certain fabrics really do need underlining to hold up to the stress the average coat takes. Bouclés, cashmeres, fur fabrics and blends? You bet. You'll be far happier with the results if you underline. Boiled wools, flannels and meltons? It's not a requirement. Here's how I determine whether I should underline a coating. Take an 8 inch square of fabric. Mess around with it. Drape it over a ham or other rounded object (your bent knee is good for this exercise). Pull it in all directions. Try to approximate things like the bend of your elbow. Give it a good workout, then see how it recovers. Press it and see if it retains its shape or not. That will give you a good idea of whether you need to underline. Also, think about the use your coat will get. Is it going to be THE COAT for winter? Underline it. If it's only going to get occasional use, and it's a very tightly woven melton, then you can get away without underlining. It's your call.

I hope this helps answer some questions you might have. I'm really enjoying watching the process. I hope I'll be able to join in!

Ann Steeves

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From the comments:

Marji said...

Thanks Ann,
Can you comment specifically on the cashmere blend (you have it in orange and fuschia at $18/yd) coating wool - is the cashmere content high enough on that coating to warrant an underlining?

Gorgeous Things said...

Hi Marji,

It's a pretty tight weave, and it should hold up without an underlining. If you want to underline a cashmere blend or cashmere like that, I'd use a cotton batiste.

HTH!
Ann

Underlinings and Interlinings

Underlining / Interlining / Interfacing
Fusible / Sewn-In / Combination

Traditional tailoring is done with traditional materials and sewn-in interfacings. However, in light of today’s improved processes for creating quality fusibles, and in consideration of time and cost, even High end designers are using some fusibles in their Pret-a-Porter jackets and coats now.

What you choose now will, to a great degree, effect the final drape and shaping of your coat. For best results, you should sample Before you start mounting and fusing your fabrics.

Underlining – Body and Sleeves Only
supports the fashion fabric
Underlining is mounted to the fashion fabric prior to sewing, then both fabrics together are treated as one.
Use with Fabrics that need stability:
• Boucle
• Loosely woven tweeds
• Soft animal hair fiber fabrics such as Cashmere and Mohair
• Any fabric that feels fragile,
• And, May be needed for wool flannel if pattern has full heavy skirt (such as V8307 and V8346

Not necessary for most wool flannels that are coating weight, wool tweeds that are tightly woven, and Melton.

Fabrics for Underlinings
• Fine cotton batiste
• Cotton broadcloth or high quality muslin
• Silk broadcloth
• Cotton/silk batiste blend
• China silk
• Cotton flannel – as underlining/interlining (preshrink!)
- Fusible - textured weft insertion products such as Armo-weft, Angel-weft

Interlining – Body and Sleeves Only
Provides added warmth
Interlining is treated the same as underlining, except that it is a layer intended more to add warmth than stability.
If you’re using fabric that requires an underlining, use one that serves both as support and warmth such as cotton flannel, OR use a lining such as flannel back satin that serves the dual purpose. In any event, do not plan to underline, interline, and line.

Fabrics for interlining
• Cotton flannel
• Lambswool interlining – soft as a cloud, expensive and difficult to find
• Lightweight Thinsulate TM


Source list:
See links on sidebar for
Farmhouse Fabrics - batiste and broadcloth
Vogue Fabrics - cotton flannel in many colors
MacPhee - Thinsulate

leave your suggestions for sources in the comments, and I'll add links